By Steven Stuckey
Interview Date: September 15th 2013
Steven Stuckey: Hello Chris, I�d like to thank you for agreeing to do this interview with Jyotish Star. Perhaps you�d like to share how you first became interested in Jyotish?
|  | Chris Kevill: Like many Westerners, I started with Western astrology first and then moved into Vedic astrology later. I first stumbled onto Western astrology in 1994 when I was working on my Ph.D. in Sociology. At the time, I had a friend who was a fellow graduate student who came from Thailand. Over the course of our acquaintance, she revealed that she believed in astrology. I remember she once pulled out of her wallet a hand-drawn horoscope that her father had given her. I was stunned that an intelligent person enrolled in a graduate program at university could believe in such nonsense! That was my view at the time � astrology was just irrational superstition consumed by gullible people. But she explained how important astrology was in Thailand and for most Thai people. It is a very essential part of the culture, much as it is in India. Even if I teased her a bit about it at the time, I admit I was quite intrigued with the chart itself. It was like hieroglyphics � an ancient language written an encrypted code that only the cognoscenti could know. With her |
birthday approaching, I decided to buy her a little pocket book of annual predictions for Aries, her sun sign. Before I gave it to her, I read it. I was fascinated with this alternative way of looking at reality. I didn't really put much stock in it at all, but since it was such a complete system of thought, I took an almost academic interest in it immediately. Eventually I bought more books on Western astrology and it started to dawn on me that there was something to it.
Steve: That�s an interesting beginning, Chris. With your academic background, it sounds like you were quite a rational sort of person. What kind of family environment did you come from? How was astrology spoken of in your family circle?
Chris: Both of my parents are pretty grounded people and neither of them had any interest in something as offbeat as astrology. I don�t recall any discussions about it growing up. Interestingly enough, my grandfather John Kevill was an amateur astrologer in Vancouver from the 1930s until the 1950s. I believe he had encountered it through the writings of the Rosicrucian Fellowship and pursued it avidly in his spare time. Ironically, I never met him as he died before I was born. Maybe that�s proof that interest in astrology is genetic! Even stranger was the fact that no one in my family made mention of his interest in astrology until after I had already gotten deeply into it. So I was pretty much a blank slate as far as that goes.
Steve: So what made you move away from Western astrology and turn to Jyotish?
Chris: After a couple of years casually studying Western astrology, I was getting a bit frustrated. Most western astrology focused on psychology it seemed and emulated the therapeutic counseling model in psychiatry. It all seemed quite vague with much emphasis placed on emotions and feelings. There wasn�t much room for predictions really, and many of the statements were quite general and could apply to anybody. While I think there is value in psychological Western astrology, it just wasn�t for me. My mind is more rational and scientific -- I hope! I like to analyze things and treat the chart as a puzzle that demands to be solved rather than an open-ended window to consciousness. That�s just my bias.
Steve: So that�s when you encountered the work of Richard Houck?
Chris: Right. In those days before the internet, the bookstore was the only way the average person could access astrology. While combing the shelves of a local bookstore one day, I came across his book, The Astrology of Death. Of course, the title stopped me in my tracks because it was so shocking and morbid. I wasn�t particularly drawn to the whole notion of predicting life span and death, but I soon realized that this was the best book on astrology I had ever come across. Actually, there was a lot of stuff in there that was unrelated to longevity, including questions of career, relationships and the rest of it. It really touched on most of the issues one would encounter when reading a chart. He used the basics of the Vedic system � the sidereal zodiac (Krishnamurti ayanamsha), dashas and transits � and then added-on another layer of progressions, eclipse analysis and a few other things. I had been dimly aware of Jyotish beforehand but the books that were available at the time did not speak to me as much as his did. Besides his engaging writing style, I was perhaps drawn to him since he retained some Western elements like the outer planets (Uranus, Neptune and Pluto). He wrote with great clarity and had a hard-boiled, no-nonsense approach. He was also quite humorous, even caustic, and made the practice of chart analysis come alive. His discussion of charts was honest and allowed for uncertainty and gaps in our knowledge. I had never encountered that before. Most astrology books interpret charts as if the answers are obvious and everything fits into neat little boxes. In practice, we know that doesn�t happen, as different interpretations are often possible. Houck was the first astrologer I had found who allowed for ambiguity and tried to do the best he could with it. He actually grappled with the charts and shared his own thinking process along the way. His approach was the most intellectually honest in astrology at that time.
Steve: How did you come to know him?
Chris: After struggling to understand his book, I worked up the gumption to send him a letter asking for clarification of some obscure point and offered my own half-baked ideas on some chart or other. He was very gracious and encouraging in his response and so a correspondence began. As snail mail evolved into email and phone calls, we exchanged ideas on a lot of subjects. I learned a lot from him, but probably the most valuable thing was intellectual honesty and the importance of a rigorous analysis that could withstand objections from all sides. Unfortunately, my mentorship was cut far too short when Houck died of cancer in 2001.
Steve: Houck was known for his use of tertiary progressions and how he combined Jyotish with Western techniques. To what extent have you continued to practice his hybrid approach?
Chris: I have tried to emulate most of this approach although I have added some other techniques over time. I do pay particular attention to the tertiary and minor progressed charts. These can provide a quick confirmation to whatever may be happening with the transits. As you may know, western astrologers typically use secondary progressions. These are charts where each year of life is symbolically represented by one day in the ephemeris. In that sense, they are solar based. So if a person is born with the Sun at 2 Libra and Venus at 27 Libra, we know that the Sun will progress to conjoin the natal Venus at age 25 since the Sun moves one degree for each year of life. This Sun-Venus conjunction usually coincides with a positive event or period including marriage, childbirth, etc., all things being equal. Tertiary progressions move more quickly than secondary progressions. Tertiary progressions are Moon-based where each lunar month (27 days) is symbolically equivalent to one day in the ephemeris. Over the course of a year, the progressed inner planets (Sun, Mercury, Venus) move about 12 degrees -- about one degree per month. This creates a kind of intermediate measurement between transits which are quite fast and dashas which can last for many years. Since tertiaries are Moon-based, Houck believed they could be linked more closely to the dasha system which is also based on the placement of the Moon in the nakshatras. His basic idea here was that whenever the major or minor dasha lord was highlighted in some obvious way in the tertiaries, events and situations described by the dasha lord were more likely to occur. For example, if a person was running their Jupiter dasha and the tertiary progressed Ascendant was conjunct Jupiter, then this would boost the positive results that would be forthcoming. In addition, Houck suggested that such strong progressed Jupiter contacts � especially the direct and retrograde stations -- were more likely to occur during the Jupiter dasha and thus hinted at some hitherto unknown connection between this ancient Indian dasha technique and modern Western astrology. That is obviously a more speculative notion but the bottom line here was that the progressions could help to pinpoint when some of manifestations of the dasha were more likely to occur.
Steve: There are some astrologers who assert that we shouldn't be mixing various systems of astrology--what would you say to that?
Chris: I agree. We shouldn�t mix them in the sense of inserting outer planets into the dasha systems or adhering to modern rulerships. Can you imagine what a Neptune dasha would look like? I can�t. But I think one can make a better case for using both systems in parallel so that we have an additional layer of evidence that can act to confirm or disconfirm ideas we may have about a chart. I like to use the essence of the traditional Vedic approach as my starting point. It is a kind of default setting, if you will. Then once I have a sort of rough idea of what may be going on in a chart, I will examine how the western add-ons may elaborate that. So while I don�t use modern rulerships of the outer planets (e.g. Uranus ruling Aquarius), I do like to make note of where Uranus is in the chart in case it is in an alignment with any of the traditional planets and points. This can modify planetary conditions enormously if the aspect is close. I use progressions the same way, as a means of confirming some preliminary notions I may have from the dashas and transits.
Steve: You seem to take a very rational and empirical approach to astrology. Is there a planetary combination in your own natal chart that accounts for that?
Chris: Guilty as charged! My Mercury is quite angular and Saturn is in alignment with four planets. I think I�m a classic case of a very cerebral Mercury-Saturn person. And my Moon is in Gemini also so that adds to the focus on data and information. I enjoy reading about scientific theories and classification systems of all kinds. I like to hang out in libraries, and I like to look at maps � basically all kinds of abstract mental tools that organize reality. I like sports also but I tend to gravitate towards baseball because its plodding pace allows for a lot of thinking and strategizing (Mercury) and reflection (Saturn, Moon). And of course the heavy emphasis on statistics is very much part of the appeal.
Steve: From your website, I notice you have written a lot of articles on financial astrology. Can you explain your interest in this area?
Chris: Well, I do enjoy the whole area of stock markets and economics. The market is like a living and breathing reflection of society, or at least one part of society. But the main reason why I became interested in it astrologically was because it can be seen as a way of understanding collective consciousness. If we want to see how the collective effects of a particular transit might be playing out, then the stock market provides a unique and perhaps indispensable window onto transit effects. One often reads in newspaper or online astrology columns about �upcoming transits for the week� and how they might affect us. If Jupiter is in aspect with the Sun, that supposedly may be bolstering our confidence or expanding our horizons in some way. That may be true for some people but there may be no direct way to know just what the effects of these general transits are on people. Each of us has our own individual charts so these general transits may not necessarily deliver on their promise. That happy Sun-Jupiter transit in the sky may be activating a badly placed Mars in my horoscope, so I may not feel good at all that day.
But the stock market does offer a glimpse onto that general collective level. If more people are feeling confident and optimistic in the future, then people are more likely to invest their money and buy stocks and so the market rises. If the market rises it doesn�t mean that everyone is feeling hopeful of course, but just that more people are feeling hopeful than not.
That means that the stock market is sort of like a never-ending stream of data from which we can arrive at a deeper understanding of astrology. If you want to know what the collective effects of a particular transit are, just check the markets for the day the transit was on. Certainly, the markets are reductionistic � they can only go up or down. The last time I checked human beings were capable of feeling more than two ways � fearful and hopeful. But the markets are a great laboratory for testing astrological ideas because the feedback is pretty quick. I think Astro-meteorology is similarly useful in that regard.
Steve: So how effective is astrology in predicting the markets?
Chris: I think it�s very much a mixed bag. There are certain aspects and patterns that deliver what they promise fairly reliably but there are always exceptions. That complicates things. One thing you learn after a while is that there are no iron laws in financial astrology. For example, Mars is usually malefic when in aspect with Mercury but not always. Jupiter is usually bullish with most other planets but not always. The best you can hope for are probabilistic outcomes. The complex nature of the solar system means that the current pattern in the sky has literally never occurred before at any time in human history. Think about it. It means there is no ready-made record of previous movements from which we can study and forecast. All we can do is analyze the position of the planets into their angular relationship with each other by two-planet aspects and then try to extrapolate as best we can. There is definitely a lot of extrapolation, speculation and a few outright hunches involved in predicting the stock market. The data we have just isn�t very robust so we just make do and go from there. But I think it is possible to distinguish between higher probability patterns and lower probability patterns. It�s a bit like working on natal charts in that way. Usually it is only the major multi-planet patterns that coincide with significant events in a person�s life. Those are the events that we hope to be able to predict in a consultation. But for much of the time, there isn�t much going on in a chart and so predicting outcomes for those times becomes more difficult. Following routines and a steady-as-she-goes approach probably describes the bulk of most people�s life experiences. Maybe Woody Allen was right when he said that �80% of life is just showing up�.
Steve: Does the absence of any iron rules make astrology less scientific? I�m guess I�m asking if you think astrology can be considered a science or would we be better off calling it something else?
Chris: I like to call it a science but there are different types of science out there. The physical sciences like physics and chemistry are inherently different from the human sciences like economics, sociology and psychology. Human beings are not like atoms. They are imbued with consciousness and free will. That makes it much more difficult to make sound predictions.
Therefore, astrology is very much a human science so it should be judged accordingly. Other human sciences like economics are held in very high esteem but it has a terrible record of prediction. The brain trust at the Federal Reserve didn�t predict the last financial crisis, or the bubble that preceded it. And nobody really knows what the long term effects of the Fed�s quantitative easing will be. It�s all a big experiment based on very little evidence and prior track record.
But I�m not saying that astrology is in the same league with economics. It still has a long way to go. From our experience, we know that many astrological ideas are correct. But there are many occasions when we make a wrong prediction. That should give us pause. A wrong prediction tells us that something we�re doing is not right. It means that one of our assumptions is wrong. But which one? That is where things get confusing because there are so many factors that go into making a prediction. And that is one reason why astrology lags behind the other sciences: it is very difficult to figure out what works and what doesn�t. Astrology is not readily amenable to statistical testing so it is difficult to test everything that goes into such a complex thinking process. As a result, astrology is not really a cumulative scientific enterprise in the way that most other sciences are. Without an institutional basis, it is very hard for astrological knowledge to systematically grow over time. The foundational texts of Jyotish and other astrological traditions are deservedly revered and obviously invaluable. But I regard them as starting points for discovery rather than as encyclopedias with all the answers. It is up to us to take the current knowledge of astrology and do our best to add to it and then pass it on to the next generation. I am hopeful that the internet age and the increased speed of communication will facilitate more sharing of astrological knowledge across borders and cultures.
Steve: Thank you again Chris for taking the time for this very illuminating interview--your thoughts have evoked many ideas for us to contemplate!
Christopher Kevill Biography:
| | Christopher Kevill is a neo-Vedic astrologer specializing in predictive astrology. His formal education in Sociology inclines him towards an evidence-based approach in astrology. In his daily practice as a consulting astrologer, he combines the timeless wisdom of Jyotish with a selection of effective Western techniques.
Christopher earned his Master's Degree in Sociology from the University of California, Santa Cruz. He is currently on extended leave from his Ph.D. studies at the University of Toronto. His doctoral research concerns the debate between astrology and science in the modern world. His focus is on how astrology has negotiated its boundaries with science and, in so doing, has been unintentionally subject to a process of rationalization. He is also interested in accounting for the revival of traditional astrological |
practices against a backdrop of advancing globalization. This includes accounting for the rise in popularity of Vedic and Hellenistic astrology in the West over the past 30 years. It is his contention that these changes can only be fully explained in terms of astrology's search for legitimacy through ancient scientific traditions in light of the ongoing critique from mainstream Western science.
He makes his home in Toronto, Canada.
Steven Stuckey Biography:
 | | Steven Stuckey (Shastrakara das) began his study of Astrology in 1968. He started teaching classes in both western sidereal and Jyotish techniques in 1979 and was instrumental in the initial introduction of Jyotish in the United States. In 2012 he received the prestigious title Jyotish Vachaspati from the ICAS (International Council for Astrological Sciences). He currently resides in southern Oregon where he continues to teach and advise an international clientele.
Contact Information:
He may be reached by email at: [email protected] |
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