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Jyotish Star of the Month |
A Conversation with Chakrapani UllalBy Juliana SwansonInterview Date: 5/24/2012
When I was studying law in Bombay, I was a back-bencher. There was another person who was a back-bencher who I didn�t know � just a casual acquaintance. On a Sunday, he came to visit me in the morning, and told me he is inviting me for his marriage on January 31st 1956, and I looked at him, I had the inspiration that the planets were not in harmony at that time because of the position of the various planets at that moment. Normally, when a person comes to your home for inviting, you do not make any negative comments about the occasion. I could not hold back, I asked him, how many people have you invited? He said 5,000 people for dinner at the Bombay Race Course. I told him, �This marriage may not take place.� He did not take it seriously. On the night of January 31st, his grandmother died and the marriage was postponed. Next morning, the boy�s parents came to see me, they said, �How can you tell this?� I said, �I just checked within my own mind the time he was asking me, and I decided that the marriage may not take place.� So I became famous with 5,000 people in Bombay as the news spread. Juliana: How did you know about the marriage needing to be postponed? Chakrapani: Because my father was an expert in Prasna, where you can answer people�s queries without horoscopes, so I have also learned that. So, many people started asking me questions and showing me their charts, and in this way, I became very active in the study and discussion of astrology and giving predictions to the best of my ability. It was very easy because I was doing free consultations for everybody for about 10 years. That way, I increased my knowledge by having the experience of seeing many, many charts. In the meantime, I got acquainted with two famous astrologers � one, very famous, named Y. Krishna Menon, he is closely associated with Dr. Raman and contributing articles to The Astrological Magazine. Whenever he came to Bombay, I met him almost every day and discussed astrology. He took a keen interest in explaining. Another person who is not so known, but was a very skilled astrologer and schoolteacher, he came to Bombay and stayed in my home for three months, so I had the opportunity to learn from this man who had a great depth of knowledge. Whatever he has predicted for me, to this day, has been mostly correct. And then, in those days, I was visiting Swami Muktananda, so here a lot of visitors used to come and they had major questions, he decided to refer them to me by looking at their chart. So I had the opportunity to not only study astrology, but to become professionally oriented from 1966 onwards. Juliana: So your father learned Ayurveda and astrology from his father? Chakrapani: Yes, but I did not learn Ayurveda. Nowadays, at least with Ayurvedic doctors, it is scripture and knowledge. Juliana: And where is Ullal (from where you received your surname)? Chakrapani: Mangalore. It is a suburb of Mangalore. Juliana: Thank you. [Editor�s note: . Ullal is close to the borders and between the states of Kerala and Karnataka in the southern tip of India]. Chakrapani: the name Ullal is the Goddess Ullalthi. Ullalthi is the Goddess of Ullal. Juliana: Oh, did you worship her? Chakrapani: Yes, yes worship to the Goddess. Juliana: So you said, that when you were young that you would sit there when your father would work with the clients that had come to your home? The people would just come to your home. Did he see them just in the morning, or in all the time, in all hours of the day? Chakrapani: In the morning, and sometimes in the afternoon. It would depend upon what the clients want to know. Normally they come in the morning. Clients, when they are in a hurry, they come in the afternoon. Juliana: Ah ha! Some that would have thought it out a bit more, would they come in the morning? Chakrapani: You still don�t get it. The logic is, in the morning, the mind is clear, and daily rituals and all those things, have been done. And they think, maybe I should go this morning. Juliana: So you were how old, when you started learning how to look at charts, or cast charts. Chakrapani: By the time I was in high school. Juliana: Ah� and were you doing rituals, puja, homas, all the time too when you were a youth? Chakrapani: No, one thing I did not go to, that my father did.
Chakrapani: No. I became a lawyer. I never practiced. Not even one day. (laughter of all in room) Juliana: How many years did it take to become a lawyer? Chakrapani: Three years. I went to college, the common college, K.C. College in Bombay. I studied three years, and I became a lawyer. Juliana: And, was there a conscious decision, when you finished� that I don�t want to do this, and I�m done with this school, I�m done. Chakrapani: No, I joined the Law College of Bombay, to get my Master�s in Law � but, I did not complete it. Juliana: But you did not complete it. Was there a reason at the time? Chakrapani: Because it did not interest me so I did not go for it. Juliana: So were you concerned that you might not be able to make a living, or did you just not like it? Chakrapani: I did not like it. Juliana: Ah. Were there any things that you learned in law school, that have helped you in your career in astrology? Chakrapani: Yes, gaining general knowledge. Juliana: Was your mother also interested in astrology? Chakrapani: No, my mother was not interested in astrology, but other than that was a very, very spiritual person, if anything was happening in the family, she would get forewarning�through the Mother. Somebody would appear, and she would get informed. Juliana: And did you have many siblings? Chakrapani: Yes, I had five siblings. Juliana: And where were you in the birth order? Chakrapani: I was number two. Juliana: Do you have pictures? Chakrapani: I don�t have anybody�s pictures. I�m not into that. I�m more into it here. Juliana: Would you tell us a little bit about what brought you out of India and into the United States?
Juliana: Do you say a mantra? Chakrapani: No, you just walk. The feet go. You don�t think. Juliana: That sounds like Mars. We better learn about that Mars when you give your thoughts! Juliana: Chakrapani, some people say that astrology isn�t �Vedic� astrology because the Vedas don�t even talk about astrology. Chakrapani: That is rubbish. Many of those people I tell them, �You are an ignorant person. It is ignorance to speak like that.� . [Editor�s note: Jyotish is the highest limb of the Vedas � Jyotirveda] Juliana: And also, if Swami Muktananda said that, about �Vedic� astrology�I don�t question that. Chakrapani: Yes, but everybody is not you. You have to perceive the general public. Juliana: Yes. Chakrapani: But many people ask me, so-called scientists. I come across these scientists, and they talk about scriptures, and they say, �The Bible says this, and this other scripture says that.� I say, �It doesn�t matter who says what, the truth doesn�t require anybody�s statement. Juliana: And there is a question that I actually wanted to ask you, because you told me that you do ten or more consultations a day. And, I would like to know how you do that. Most of us can�t see more than 3 or 5 a day. Chakrapani: If you like any subject completely, you are identified with that. When you are identified with that, the inspiration comes easy, so you do not get tired. That makes you read as many charts as you like. That is why I say, �If you love astrology, astrology loves you back.� Juliana: So that�s your secret to never getting tired. When somebody is difficult, and you say they don�t really always get the truth from you? Chakrapani: They don�t deserve it. Yes, because that is my nature. Juliana: Well, those are the kind of people that make me tired. Chakrapani: They�d make anybody tired! (laughter) Juliana: And, then when you work with somebody that is fully disclosing themselves meets you halfway, it�s amazing what happens! Chakrapani: Yes. I don�t need any disclosure. I don�t need any. When they�re quiet, I�m happy. Juliana: So you can then just be very direct. Chakrapani: Yes. And, I remember one woman, who came to me. Somewhere in the 80�s. -- she wanted to get married. She said, �can you answer that question?� I said yes, make an appointment and then come. So, she made an appointment. At the end of the appointment, she asked, �So what is the answer to my question?� �And your question is what, about your marriage?� �You want to know?� �You may not like it what I say� she said �whether it is good or bad, if you are an astrologer, you tell me if you know.� That�s what she tells me. �Good, or bad, just tell me, and if you don�t know, you tell me. I am happy with that. There was this other astrologer, and he tells me, for you marriage does not work. So, I am coming to you, because I heard that you were a good astrologer, and you will be the last. And I said, �You will marry exactly after sixteen years!� �Now you go.� She did not pay me. It�s okay. People if they walk out, I don�t say anything. I�m happy for them to get out. (laughter) Juliana: So, sixteen years�? Chakrapani: then she called, three or four years later, and she tells my assistant. �Chakrapani, he should not have told me what he did! � That is the kind of people you meet. She did not pay, because she didn�t want to hear. And, I asked her, are you sure you want to hear? Juliana: I have a question about death. You know I had a woman come and I saw the impending death of her husband, but I did not tell her, and I gave her a healing session after her reading. She got a phone call, as she was getting on the massage table, from her family saying that her house was surrounded by fire. And I thought, �Oh, this is an omen of what is to come.� Chakrapani: Yes, the death. Juliana: Yes, and she called a few days ago and wanted to know why I didn�t warn her. You�re not supposed to warn people about death, are you? Chakrapani: You can always say, he is going to die, but not now. Juliana: Yes. Or, as you say, �be good to him.� Oh, is it true that the manner of death is not fixed in stone, but the time of death is? Chakrapani: Both are fixed, but an astrologer must have a yogic mind. Juliana: Both are fixed. And this is a very private question that you might not want to answer. And that�s okay; I don�t want to overstep my bounds� Chakrapani: No problem. Juliana: Swami Muktananda is very special to me too, and I wonder if he knew, when he was going to die? Chakrapani: Absolutely he knew. Juliana: Did he talk to you about it? Chakrapani: Yes, he talked to me. I was like a friend to him. Like a friend, not like a disciple. So he talked to me. Only I treated him like he was like a Guru for me. So, he had a certain amount of confidence and trust in me. Once he asked me, �when would be the best time, when would be the best time for me?� He wanted to know the best time. Juliana: Because he chose it? Chakrapani: That is correct. Juliana: What did Swami say about astrology? Chakrapani: Oh, he was a great proponent of astrology. Juliana: What would he tell astrologers � what was his best advice? Chakrapani: You know, I can�t speak for him. Juliana: Well, what would be your best advice? What is the best advice that you can give astrologers practicing in this world today? Chakrapani: You should really give 100 percent attention to what you do. That is most important. And be detached from the result. Juliana: And how does one detach from the result? Chakrapani: Don�t get impressed by anybody, is what I say. Juliana: What�s the greatest pitfall for an astrologer? Chakrapani: You read my brochure, in the last page, you will get the answer. A good astrologer should have not only astrological knowledge, but also a good understanding of the philosophy of life. A Vedic astrologer is expected to lead a spiritually conscious life, and to meditate, do japa, or perform pujas daily. When an astrologer lives his life aspiring to be of service to others Grace of God may flow through him allowing for intuitive insights which elevates the practice to another level. The true Vedic Astrologer has a yogic mind which is steady and unbiased, judging the influences of the planets but not judging the individual. Vedic Astrology is viewed as a divine subject; the astrologer should approach it with true reverence and humility. Juliana: have you ever hear of Sudhei Baba of Benares, mentioned in Paul Brunton�s A Search in Secret India. And also Swamy Shri Yukteshwar who says �astrology is a useful guide for one who walks in the dark, but for one who finds the light, then the astrological chart is no longer needed.� Chakrapani: Yes, that�s correct. The astrological chart is no longer needed because such a person has no questions � his path is very clear. Juliana: So you transcend the astrological chart, if you are enlightened? Chakrapani: I�m not. I�m not enlightened. Juliana: But for those that are, like Swami Muktananda, or Ammachi� Chakrapani: I cannot speak for anybody. I cannot compare anybody to anybody. Juliana: And this brings me to the question of, I believe that I cannot learn from my own astrological chart very well. I�m not objective enough to be able to read my own karma. Chakrapani: It is not about the chart. It is about you. You have to be objective. You can�t be objective about yourself. Juliana: Okay, well here is another question, and if you don�t want to answer it, it is okay. Chakrapani: I will answer all questions. Juliana: Oh wow. Would you be willing to share a few key parts of your own natal horoscope that indicates your interest in astrology from an early age? Chakrapani: You know, I don�t think I can. The question is about myself, so I don�t think I need to go there� Juliana: Why is it important for astrologers to keep that information private, secret? Why? Chakrapani: An astrologer who is in the process of learning wants to interpret everything about every person in terms of astrological planets, for example, �because you have Mars in Taurus, that is why you do like that,� that kind of a thing. Which, we astrologers from India, we do not believe that. Nobody does that in India. Juliana: Why don�t you like it? Is it like someone putting a curse on somebody? Chakrapani: They can�t put any curse. It is the difference between talking to an ignorant person and a very learned person. I don�t give them that opportunity. That�s all about it. Juliana: An astrologer I know in Mumbai told me that astrologers have a very hard life, because they are always looking at the karma of other people. And, that is sometimes very difficult because they have to heal it, or help process it�? Chakrapani: It may be true for people like the people that told you that. They think it is the karma. For people, �you become as you think!� So, if he thinks like that�he will become! And, if you don�t think like that�you cannot become. Juliana: So, how does one think, as an astrologer, about the work? Chakrapani: Work is worship. Juliana: When you look at a chart, are you worshiping the divine, in a way? Chakrapani: That is what you have to think! Juliana: That�s why you don�t get tired. Chakrapani: Yes, that is true. The Varahamihira, the greatest astrologer of the Kali Yuga, the Kali Yuga started thereafter. He was a great mathematician, and physics, and an astrologer. He was qualified in all of those things. He wrote the stanzas. If you read it, the astrology is astrology. If you read it as music, you will see the music, if you read it as mathematics, you will see the numbers. Now, who can do that brilliantly in this Kali Yuga? Nobody can. It requires that kind of mind to understand astrology. What we astrologers have is nothing; we are less than five per cent of the real astrology. Astrologers can be great. But to me, an astrologer is poor, because we don�t have it enough in us. And that is why we astrologers have to have a hard life. When the real astrologer comes, the world will be at his feet! Juliana: Is it important for an astrologer to have a daily meditation practice? Chakrapani: It is very important for everyone to meditate to keep the mind at ease and get into a state of concentration. Juliana: Is consulting with somebody from the East, different than consulting with somebody from the West? Chakrapani: Totally different. People coming from the East to America, they cannot be right, because they apply their cultural rules here. Juliana: Prediction is more than�? Chakrapani: It is more than speaking, writing books, and getting degrees. It is really beyond that. Juliana: Yes, it is. Chakrapani: I would like to talk to you about how I started teaching in Los Angeles. At the Sidereal School of Astrology. Juliana: You were in Oakland, and then you moved to LA? Chakrapani: No, I never lived there, with Swami. He said, �Where do you want to stay? New York?� I said, �No, no, I can�t tolerate the cold there.� He said, �Oakland?� I said, �No, no, I don�t like Oakland. Santa Monica I like.� So that is what happened. So I ended up in Santa Monica. So, some people from LA came and they said, �You should teach, you are a great astrologer.� So, I agreed after a while and I started teaching in the school in 1985 every week for about two and a half to three hours. Many people used to come. I taught there for about 10-12 years. Thereafter, I moved the class to my home in Brentwood where I conducted the class once every month. When I was teaching in the class, there were many people who learned from me, and came regularly, like Steven Stuckey, Bill Levacy, Christina Collins, and Nalini. Then I gave classes in San Francisco at Open Secret Bookstore, and many people also came, on and off, like Dennis Harness, James Kelleher, and Steven Quong, etc. Juliana: Edith? [Hathaway] Chakrapani: No, Edith was not there. Not at that time. Juliana: One last question, we spent a special time together at Arsha Vidya Gurukulum� (Institute of Vedanta and Sanskrit started by Swami Dayananda) in Pennsylvania. That was a miracle when Yogi Karve saw my astrology chart in his mind�s eye. You know, I am born on the edge of Scorpio and Sagittarius, like Christina and Steven Stuckey, we all have that � and he says, you were born in the 8th sign, and Chakrapani, you were with me, and he said "oh, it is on the edge." And he called my entire chart. It is one of the biggest miracles that I have ever encountered. Did that seem just ordinary to you? Have you seen other miracles like that? [Editor�s note: Shri Krishna Yogi Karve Maharaj is a gifted Vedic astrologer and clairvoyant] Chakrapani: Yes. -- Ordinary. He stayed at my house, for five days. He was an unusual person. He was the most simple and humble person I have ever met. He was gifted in tracking out your birth time and the position of your planets at the time of your birth � without doing any calculations. Juliana: So you saw a lot of miracles like that? Chakrapani: Yes, I saw. But, I said, let me put it this way, he agreed with me, that sometimes his predictions could go wrong. Juliana: Well, he said to me, I can be wrong and I can be right. Juliana: Did you ever meet Carl Jung? Chakrapani: No, I have not met him, but I have met many psychologists. Another person who was very interesting who invited me to his home for tea was Dane Rudhyur. Juliana: How nice! Chakrapani: Yes, he and his wife. And, he asked me this, and that, and all these questions. He has a great fascination for Vedic astrology. Juliana: You know when we go back to the beginning of our interview, when we asked you about your earliest inspirations or teachers, did you want to mention their names?
Juliana: Thank you so much Chakrapani, I am sure our readers will enjoy your journey and fascinating discourse! Chakrapani: It is my pleasure. Chakrapani Ullal's Biography: Chakrapani was born to a traditional Hindu family of astrologers in the South of India. He, thus, began to receive training in astrology from his parents at a very early age. He has also spent a great deal of time in the company of saints and sages. Chakrapani holds a degree in business studies and law and has traveled widely throughout the world in his capacity as a financial and legal advisor to the companies he represented. In 1979, he was invited to come to the United States as an advisor and consultant. Today, Chakrapani has a busy private practice in Los Angeles, where he is consulted by people from all over the world and from all walks of life. Chakrapani can be reached at www.chakrapani.com Juliana Swanson's Biography: |
 | | Juliana Swanson qualifies as an ACVA and CVA Level II certified Vedic Astrologer, receiving two titles of excellence , the Jyotish Visharada, CVA; and the Jyotish Kovid, CVA. Additionally, she brings depth to her workas a Registered Nurse (RN), Polarity Therapist (RPP) and Rebirthing-Breathwork Facilitator. Juliana runs her holistic healing and astrological consulting practice from her home office on the Big Island of Hawaii. In addition, she tutors vedic astrology students both individually and as an online instructor for both the American College of Vedic Astrology and the International Academy of Astrology. Juliana holds memberships in the Council of Vedic Astrology (CVA); the British Association of Vedic Astrology (BAVA); the |
| American Federation of Astrologers (AFA); the International Society for Astrological Research; the American Polarity Therapy Association (APTA); and, Rebirthing-Breathwork International (RBI). You may reach Juliana at her Hawaii office at 808-430-5989 |
| Juliana may be reached by email at: [email protected] Her web site is www.AstralHarmony.com. |
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| Jyotish Star Copyright 2011 C. C. Collins - All Rights Reserved |